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The Rediff Cricket Interview / Barry Richards

'I don't want to tell India how to suck eggs. But my overview would be that they need a strong domestic competition where wickets are not always flat'

No more elegant player has taken the field in our time,' says Richie Benaud.

'He has undoubtedly been the biggest influence on my career,' says Greg Chappell.

These are statements of two cricketing greats, which stand testimony to the brilliance of a batsman who played just four Tests or, to make that sound even more painful, just a lone series for South Africa.

Barry Anderson Richards, 55, was born in Morningside, Durban, and played cricket for Natal, South Australia, Hampshire and Gloucestershire, and Packer's international series, after his country was expelled by the ICC. Arguably the finest opening batsmen, he moved over to England and continued to do what he was best at -- playing cricket. Along with Graeme Pollock, Peter Pollock and Colin Bland, he formed one of the strongest Test teams in cricketing history.

Currently doing commentary for a private television channel, Barry spoke to Faisal Shariff about the problems the South African and Indian teams are beset with. He also recommended that the ICC gets more focussed and headstrong as they make decisions to improve the game. Then, he also touched upon the subject he resents the most -- racial discrimination, and defended his view that the South African team should be picked on merit alone and not by colour of one's skin.

What qualitative difference has the isolation made to South Africa?

I don't think many other countries would have survived without a strong domestic competition that there is in South Africa, or there was. And I think they find the wrong way in terms of the trying to expand the number of teams in South Africa. I think Australia has got it right -- six teams in domestic competition. And in a country like South Africa you need six teams playing first class. In a place like India you need six or eight teams as well as you have a Super league here as well. So I think that is the key to be able to succeed when you come back into international cricket after being away for such long time -- through a strong domestic competition. And to do that you need fewer teams.

How do you think it came about? It is less than 10 years and South Africa is right up there with Australia?

They were right up there when they came back because of the strong domestic competition. For 20 years they had very strong cricket in their own country. When Transval played against Natal, it was like a Test match. Everybody wanted to win; only six teams and that is why they were able to keep the standard up. So when they came back in they would be dropped off. If we have too many teams, the standard is diluted and it goes down.

What kind of developmental programmes -- since 1991 -- has South Africa run?

That is a different situation. You want to promote cricket to everybody and to get more people playing you need to have a broader base of players and you need more teams to provide that. And that's going to be counted against South Africa for a little while. South Africa might go through a developmental phase. They won't be as good but then they will come back up again.

What do you think is Dr. Ali Bacher's role in the re-admittance of South Africa to international cricket?

It's been all-powerful and he has done a terrific job of coordinating. It is not always easy to coordinate everything.

What kind of preparation has South Africa made -- since they will be hosting the 2003 World Cup?

I think Dr. Bacher is the one to speak to, but I know they will do well because they have got good grounds and good infrastructure; they will be able to handle it.

How does it feel, as probably one of the finest Test openers ever, you didn't play enough Test cricket?

I mean it is disappointing. When you look back at it, it's always disappointing, but there is nothing you can do about it. So you don't spend a lot of time thinking about it because there is nothing you can do to change it. It is one of those things, which has happened. It's gone, finished, and time to move on.

And also the fact that you never played one-day cricket ...

I played one-day cricket, but in England; for Hampshire, domestic cricket. But it is one of those things which didn't happen. So it's is no good spending a lot of time thinking about it.

Could you relate your experiences of having played with a great team or part of a great team?

It is part of your life which you enjoy. I think when we played we had a very good time. It was terrific to play against some and with some of the greatest players. I had the opportunity in England and I had the opportunity again in South Africa to be part of great teams, and I think it is something you look back with a lot of affection. It is just the part of your life which you enjoy.

Why is that there is a dearth of spinners in South Africa?

It is because of the kind of wickets we play on. It is not the kind of wicket where you get spin and bounce like this. It is just that the seamers get a lot of help in terms of the wicket. Therefore, a lot of players in South Africa develop the seam bowling technique more than spinners. Therefore, you are going to have more success bowling fast than the spinners. There have been some reasonably good spinners over the years and mainly from the western province, where Newlands used to be a turning wicket. But there is not the encouragement that you give in India or Pakistan or Sri Lanka.

But to be a superpower like Australia and South Africa also you need to win everywhere. What is South Africa doing to attain that status?

South Africa has got a little bit of a problem. It is not just a cricketing solution; there is just politics, which people from India would understand because there is lot of politics in the cricket environment here as well. Sometimes the decisions that are taken are not always in the best interest of cricket, and that might count against South Africa for a little while, while they try and get the development of the game and spread the game to all the population groups. And till they do that they might have a slight down turn in players' strength.

Do you believe that there has been a collective change in the minds of the white and colored people as well?

I live in Australia, so it is very difficult for me to tell. But I would say there seems to be a lot of positive feedback from South Africa and everybody is committed to making it all work. I mean it is obviously going to be ups and downs as you go along, as there always will be, but I think everybody is committed to making it work.

What has your reaction been? Has your thinking changed radically ever since?

I have been exposed to overseas and living overseas for a very long time. As long ago as 1971 we had a walk off in relation to what we believed should happen within South African cricket and that was long time before things changed. So I have had the exposure of living overseas for a long time. So I had no problem a very long time ago in terms of changing my views. My views had been changed a long time ago. I have been part of the world set-up; not just isolated in South Africa like a lot of white people obviously are.

What was your view?

I played in the World XI with Gary Sobers, and people like Mike Gatting, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts, and opened the batting with Gordon Greenidge. It had no effect on him in terms of having any bridges.

I was speaking to the convener of selectors, Mr. Magiet, and he said that it would take at least 40-45 years for cricket to become equal at grassroot level right from schools. There are white schools, which have almost 10 playgrounds, and some coloured schools, which don't have even a single playground. What is your reaction to that? You think it will take that much time for the coloured to come into the team?

It will take a while. As I say, cricket is not that kind of game that you teach somebody on Tuesday and make him go and play on Wednesday. It is not that kind of game. It takes quite a long time to learn the basics and to get the infrastructure. So it is going to take a bit of time.

But would it take that much?

It is hard to say. Who knows how long is going to take? I would have no view on how long will it take. I am not intimately involved with South African cricket. I don't see it on a day-to-day basis. So it is very difficult to know it.

What are your views on Hansie as a captain?

I think he is well respected amongst his team and he is very positive and he is able to make decisions. Those are the trades a captain should be able to have. So for me, I think he has done a wonderful job of leading South Africa in a difficult time. I am sure he will try to get more runs as some of the other batsmen have. He started off with a 50 in India, so I think he is positive about the future.

Do you think he was justified in taking up the job as Glamorgan coach while he was still captain of South Africa? You agree with that?

I think that was a very low phase in his life. I think there was a time when he felt that he should or should not be playing cricket. I think at some stage all cricketers go through it in their career, and I think that was a particularly low period in his playing career and he perhaps regrets his decision now.

But he has been having problems with the selection committee, and with Kepler Wessels in particular.

As I say I have got no official capacity and I haven't been intimately involved so I don't know. You only read what you read in the newspapers. You are never quite sure till all the sides of the story are told. So it is not something you go around and ask people about. Because selection is obviously very important; whatever is said in selection is kept in the selection room and I am not able to know what happens in the selection room. So it is hard to form a judgement when you haven't got all the factors.

So do you believe that the South African team should be purely picked on merit or there should be some reservations for the coloured people also, because they don't get the kind of infrastructure or development programmes that help them so much?

I don't know how much has been spent on the developmental programme in the last 10 years, but it has been substantial amount of money that has been spent on.

Are you talking about the coloured?

Yeah the coloured, or the Indian or black or whatever you like to call. I think there has been a lot of money spent in that area, and I think it will bear fruit at some stage in the future. I just don't think that at the international level you do not pick your best team. I think you have to always pick your best team because you are representing you country. You must have your best team on the field whether it is soccer or badminton, and I don't know whether they call in for half the team to be white. It is on merit. I think cricket should be the same and if it takes few extra years for the black players to come through then I am afraid in my view at international level you have got to pick your best team. What happens at the lower level is a different story.

Maybe at the domestic level?

Yeah at school level, at domestic level, that's altogether a different issue. But at the international level I think you should always have your best team.

What ails the Indian cricket team?

The domestic set-up. I don't think it is strong enough. I don't think it is committed enough and I don't think it is coordinated enough. I think there are too many people fighting with each other internally and I am not talking about players I am talking about administrators. Until they get a common goal -- wanting India to be the best -- and get a domestic competition which would relate to that, for the best players on the field, they are always going to struggle.

What do you think they should be doing?

I don't know. I don't want to tell India how to suck eggs. I don't know enough about them; I have been here only for a short period of time but my overview would be that they need a strong domestic competition where wickets are not always flat; and you don't get the impression that so and so is a good player because he gets 300. And I saw Bharadwaj play and he is a good player but he is not a Test player. He goes in the Ranji and gets millions of runs. That's where you get the wrong impression of a player, because he is playing under conditions which are far easier than which he would have encountered in Test cricket. So that is the sort of issues they should be looking at, and having the younger players coming through in a much tougher situation; fielding, running between the wickets, all those issues should be on practice. Australia and South Africa have the best fielders in the world. They probably save 20-40 runs a day. You compound that over a whole year of Test cricket or one-day cricket, it is a lot of runs. Those are the issues they should be looking at.

What do you think about the home advantage factor?

Yeah, you can have advantage if you want to, but you shouldn't exclude all the other conditions within your playing structure. So if you want to have six venues, maybe three are seamers' venues and three spinners' venues. And as you are going to play domestic cricket on them, you are prepared. So that's when you play at home you are okay and when you play away you are prepared. When I was coaching South Australia and we were going to play in Sydney where it turned -- you get the curator to cut the grass of the wicket and then get somebody to play on it and then practice the next day, so that you are preparing yourself of the conditions which you are going to encounter when you go away. There is always going to be some sort of home advantage but it is no good keep winning at home and not winning away.

You think Sachin should have stepped down as captain?

I don't think Sachin is somebody who really wants to captain the team. If you are going to be captain then you must really want to captain the team, to start with. You must be a regular player and you must have the respect of your team and you must be able to make decisions. I think Sachin has been forced into captaincy because he is the best player in the world and people want him to captain the team. But if you ask him in his heart of hearts whether he wants to be the captain of the team, he might say no. I think he wants to be best batsman in the world.

Do you think the ICC should take a stand on the scheduling of tours, because there has been so much of cricket, and the players don't have time to recuperate?

I think the ICC is under-funded and under-resourced. They have got two things they can do: they can either become a very powerful voice for cricket, which is fully representative of all cricketers including the players, or they might as well give the power back to all the associations in all countries, establish some sort of cricketing ties with another country so they can work out what the best itineraries are for those particular years. I think the ICC at the moment is floating between the two. It is not just leading cricket; it's just reacting all the time. I think they need to be better resourced in terms of people. I mean if they have got legal issues, they should have a legal man who is able to solve legal issues. If there is a cricket issue, then there should be cricket people on that who should be able to solve cricket issues; and if it is marketing or television rights or whatever -- the broadcasting rights, then they should be experts in that field and it should take a real lead in international cricket. I think it is hovering between a semi-lead and leaving the countries to do some of the things. I think that if they give it the resources, and it becomes a representative body for cricket of the players as well, then it should be able lead cricket into the next millennium. That'll be a little while coming. But I think that is the issue they have got in front of them.

What do you think about the ICC on the Shoaib Akhtar case?

They were a bit reactive. The problem with Shoaib is that the Pakistan board will take the ICC to court for loss of earnings.

In your view, does Shoaib Akhtar chuck?

No, I don't think so. You tell me what the definition of a legal delivery is? Legal not illegal, and I will tell you whether he chucks or not.

Bending of the elbow is disallowed according to the ICC rules.

Then half the players that bowl in the world are chuckers if there is a bend in arm. Is it possible to bowl a leg spinner with your arm straight? So then if Kumble throws, everybody throws, if that's the criteria. You are not going to tell me Shane Warne throws. But if you are telling me that I have to get my arm absolutely straight every time I bowl, then half the bowlers are throwing. So you tell me the definition of a legal delivery.

Thinking hypothetically, if you were to make one change in cricket today, what would it be?

If don't think there is a lot wrong with cricket today. I think it is generally well supported, it is quite exciting; perhaps the balance between Test and one-day cricket they might have to look at it. It can't see anything that should be changed that would make cricket dramatically different.

Do you favour the use of the earpiece on the ground?

To me it is not a big issue. If the teams want to use it let them use it, and if then don't want to use then don't use it.

But don't you think that would make a captain a dummy? I mean the coach is calling the shots all the time?

I mean if that's the kind of captain you have got, then I don't think it makes a bloody difference. Captains can't see everything that's happening on the field. The coach might be able to see from a different angle -- that so and so is too deep, or so and so is too wide. I mean if he is telling what bowling changes are to be made then that's different. It is technology and to me if the coach told me something that I already knew I wouldn't listen to what the coach is saying. It's all about communication. To me it is not such a big issue.

Are you a traditionalist or you believe in advancement of technology in sport?

I mean what is the definition of tradition. I believe in the history of the game and I believe in the tradition of the game but I don't think we should turn away from the technology and also progress. How we use technology is also very important. I mean you have to make sure that you have always got umpires for the game. You have just technology, no umpires then who is going to umpire under-eleven games and under-ten games. You have got to manage progress. That is why the ICC needs to have a real progressive role if they are going to be the world body of cricket.

How do you assess the South African team right now?

It is a good competitive unit.

Do you think there will be a downturn when Donald and Kirsten are not there?

Yes, I mean when Lilliee and Chappell retired, there was always a hole. There is always going to be a little bit of downturn, but there are other players who will come up and take the responsibility.

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